Translated by Ollie Richardson & Angelina Siard
Former Deputy of the Verkhovna Rada Oleg Tsarev, the only Deputy from the South-East who in the middle of the tragic events of 2014 openly supported Novorossiya, gave an interview to an observer of “Politnavigator” Valentin Filippov.
Valentin Filipov: Hello, Oleg. The day before you published information that at a closed meeting between Turchynov and Avakov, the Ukrainian President Poroshenko declared his readiness to resign.
Oleg Tsarev: It’s very difficult for me to talk about in detail because I was not present at the meeting. In fact, it is Yulia Tymoshenko who learned about the conversation, and shared with her deputies, and her deputies shared it with me.
In addition, there was my article that in December the monitoring group from the Republican party led by McCain arrives. Actually it will be the “bride”.
Taking into account the scandals that are now taking place around Poroshenko, and his low rating, of all contradictions, there is the possibility of early presidential and parliamentary elections. Accordingly, there is a selection on who to further bet on.
Americans always in their colonies make an entire bench of reserves. They don’t work with one person, they work with a dozen. They work with everyone. They promise to everyone. But place a stake only on the strongest.
Today, Yulia Tymoshenko has the highest rating. She held a meeting with her regional party leaders, among them there are those who still maintain relationships with me.
We held elections more than once. And, you know, how heads of party organizations, party structures, headquarters, agree between them. Well, for example, “please, you will not disrupt the arrival of Yulia Tymoshenko, so we will not disrupt rallies with Yanukovych”. We had contacts all the time.
These relationships have stood the test of time. You know, throwing eggs at Tymoshenko, may it will not be unpleasant for her, but not sure it will not decrease her rating.
Valentin Filipov: I wanted to explain to the Russian audience: when we say that Tymoshenko or someone else has the highest rating, we mean 18% in the best case.
Oleg Tsarev: That’s a lot.
Valentin Filippov: Yes. But in Russia we’re not accustomed to a leader having a rating of 12%.
Oleg Tsarev: Yanukovych had 30%, during Maidan. His rating was equal to the sum of all the opposition leaders combined…
So, for example, when Yanukovych became President, the nonaggression pact was concluded. Yushchenko was criticized, but no one investigated the case of poisoning. And Yushchenko was not made even once to take a blood test in front of witnesses.
I say this to show that Poroshenko expects to negotiate. As Yulia Tymoshenko said at that meeting with regional leaders, consultants from the USA, who lead her political force, practically promised her the post of President. But this is not new. They promise also to Saakashvili, to Nalyvaychenko, they many times promised to Yatsenyuk. This is their practice. But then anyway they still place a stake on those who win.
But she was asked not to organize large-scale actions in Kiev. Why?
Because they don’t need a coup. “Let this be a special election, so that power changes legitimately”. And this is not good for the Russian Federation.
I think it was a mistake — the recognition of Poroshenko as President, the recognition of the elections, because everything took place in deep violation of the Constitution. It was not necessary to recognise, it was necessary to talk to them as criminals.
So, if there was another coup, it would be a convenient situation in order to not recognize him.
Valentin Filippov: From my point of view, the project “Ukraine” exhausted itself already ten years ago. And when it is said that Americans are trying to “restore order” there, does it mean that they change the commission of removal?
Oleg Tsarev: Look at what happened with the comprador regimes in Latin America. At this time the Soviet Union was still strong. When many countries looked to the Soviet Union, and the United States had to be very active inside the political life of Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil.
Such comprador regimes held for decades. The standard of living was falling. “Death squads” – this definition is from there. They were eliminating political opponents and journalists. This is the same as what is happening now in Ukraine. Only here in Ukraine there are no “death squads” but “activists”. And “ATO veterans”.
And this stayed for decades. Because there was no alternative, and now in Ukraine, also, there is no alternative. From whom is there to choose? Who do we have? Biletsky? Yatsenyuk? Tymoshenko? What? Are there any other options? There are no other options.
Valentin Filippov: Is it possible that, as a result of all these movements in Ukraine, the regime can change so that all of us can come back and integrate into this struggle?
Oleg Tsarev: In that scenario, when Yulia Tymoshenko wins, I do not exclude that many political exiles can return. Because she will have to restore order in the country. The simplest way, I don’t know if it will be implemented, is to say who, after all, was shooting on Maidan.
To destroy the foundation on which the ideology is being built on. The ideology of hatred towards all things Russian, to political opponents. Then the ATO and so on will be questioned.
And then there will be some opportunity to restore order, to give power to police, to scrutinise radicals to force them to comply with the law. To put them in prison. Because it cannot work any other way.
Valentin Filipov: Well, maybe the police, the SBU will start to close eyes to the reprisals of the Nazis. Because, in principle, they are not so numerous. And there is a lot who desire this. And why are you silent about the “Opposition bloc”? What is its role?
Oleg Tsarev: Yes there are some contradictions between the leaders of the “Opposition bloc”. It is the party of big capital. As the capital is concentrated in the South-East, there is at least some industrialization that has been preserved since the collapse of the Soviet Union…
But I must be said that the Opposition bloc or the Party of Regions always, in the end, agreed with everyone. I remember how comfortable it was for our businessmen to work in the time of Yushchenko in the last years of his reign. When these repressions ended, they sat down and agreed. And you could continue to work and work — and suddenly Yushchenko had to leave…
So my fellow party members were happy that they did not want new elections. “Yanukovych? What for!” It was unknown to them how this new car will drive. Even though he is theirs, but nevertheless…
And now the situation is the same. Poroshenko is sufficiently weak. There are many centers of power. Poroshenko desperately needs the help of oligarchs. Before the autumn demonstrations of Yulia Tymoshenko, Poroshenko actually bargained with everyone. With everyone he could. He couldn’t bargain with Kolomoisky, because the Americans established a strict condition on the nationalization of PrivatBank.
Valentin Filippov: From the Americans side, concerning Kolomoisky, it is a disgrace [sarcasm – ed]. Because it is Kolomoisky who was able to stop the Russian spring [anti-Maidan forces in Ukraine]. If not Kolomoisky, then Poroshenko and the whole gang would be hanging along the Kreshchatik. Me, personally, I hate Kolomoisky for this.
Oleg Tsarev: You are deeply mistaken. You can hate him, but not because he stopped the Russians.
Kolomoisky has very tight connections. After he was in a political frenzy when he first entered politics, he made some rash statement about Vladimir Putin… After this he made serious conclusions. And believe me, subsequently he thought things through before he acted. He thought about what he will say. He followed what his media told, and did not permit himself to launch personal attacks. And did everything in order to make amends.
I just don’t have the right to say more than I already have, but believe me, he made up for it very well.
Valentin Filippov: But Ukrainians still have Dnepropetrovsk!
Oleg Tsarev: How to say it… It is not only Dnepropetrovsk that he proposed to join to Novorossiya. But he just had too many desires. And, it’s possible that he was not heard or believed. The four regions. Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye… Regions for which he was responsible at this time.
Valentin Filipov: What will happen to the DPR-LPR? The nationalists in Ukraine laments that Poroshenko signed some secret protocols.
Oleg Tsarev: Now we can talk only about options. There are three options: unrecognized Republics; Republics joined to the Russian Federation; Republics in the structure of Ukraine…
I’d like to finish on an optimistic note. There will be changes, it is obvious concerning Ukraine, and we hope that these changes will be for the better.
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