Translated by Ollie Richardson & Angelina Siard
Oleg, is it true that in the SBU the whole department works against Russia?
“Three services work (SBU, Main Intelligence Directorate, Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine) work against Russia and the People’s Republics. In each of them there is a corresponding department. The SBU (Security Service of Ukraine) is the 5th Directorate of the Department of Counterintelligence of Ukraine. In the GUR (Main Intelligence Directorate) – the department of special operations, the base of preparation of which is on the territory under the name “Ostrov” (it is a real island that is in Kiev) and in the city of Khmelnytsky. SVR (Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine) and SBU are directly subordinated to the President of Ukraine, and the GUR to the Minister of Defence. But all three services are subordinated to the Deputy Head of the Administration of Petro Poroshenko Valery Kondratyuk. Before his appointment in the Presidential Administration Kondratyuk headed the GUR, and, it should be noted, he worked rather effectively. However, Petro Poroshenko, despite the success of the GUR in the cases of the elimination of prominent ‘separatists’ in Donbass, didn’t want to appoint Valery Kondratyuk in the administration. In a political lobby they say that Kondratyuk’s appointment took place because of pressure from the US State Department on the President of Ukraine. Kondratyuk is the creation of Nalyvaichenko. Usually agents go one by one for meetings at the US Embassy. To sell the Motherland is an intimate affair. But Nalyvaichenko with Kondratyuk are connected by such relations that they go to the embassy together, and to the US too. At this time, Nalyvaichenko rendered assistance to Kondratyuk’s recruitment. And this means that a close connection between these people was, is, and will be.”
Except treachery of the Motherland, what other “glorious affairs” occupy the aforementioned department and sub-departments that are subordinated to the present power in Ukraine?
“On March 19th, 2015, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine adopted the Law ‘About Amendments to Some Laws of Ukraine on Intelligence Bodies of Ukraine’. The majority of Deputies – 258 people – voted for the corresponding decision. The amendments of Deputies Andrey Levus and Sergey Pashinsky made lawful and even obligatory the physical elimination of the ‘enemies of the Ukrainian nation’ outside the Ukrainian borders. The Verkhovna Rada, having adopted these amendments, legalized murders as a tool of State foreign policy. The special services of Ukraine as of this moment was not simply authorized to the special services of Ukraine, but it is prescribed ‘to penetrate into international organizations that are carrying out subversive activities against Ukraine for the purpose of the prevention or the termination of their illegal activity’.”
“The adoption of the law allowed intelligence services to carry out special operations not only in occupied territories, but also in aggressor countries,” is a quote from the coauthor of the bill Sergey Pashinsky. And what is happening in reality?
“Pashinsky and Levus, undoubtedly, follow in the footsteps of their ideological inspirer Stepan Bandera: his punishers also didn’t stop before State borders in their intention to shed the blood of their enemies. History, alas, repeats itself. The adoption of this law allows the Ukrainian special services to carry out on the ‘occupied’ territories of Donbass special operations, i.e. sabotage. This is both the elimination of political or military leaders of the Republics (which is already now being implemented in Donbass), and attacks on elements of infrastructure and industry. My acquaintance from Kiev warned me that half a year before the adoption of the law, in Kiev the group on the elimination of ‘prominent separatists and enemies of Ukraine’ abroad was already created. There is an extensive intelligence network in Russia, Crimea, and Donbass that collects information and prepares special operations. Moreover, not only ‘Tsarev’ was placed on the list of ‘enemies of Ukraine’, but also the former President of Ukraine Victor Yanukovych, current heads of the young Republics of Novorossiya Zakharchenko and Plotnitsky, military commanders Motorola, Givi… As the Verkhovna Rada officially recognized Russia as an aggressor country in relation to Ukraine, on this list there are all officials of Russia, including the President of Russia Vladimir Putin and the Minister of Defence of the Russian Federation Sergey Shoigu. And their ‘illegal’ activity can be stopped by the known method of employees of the SVR, GUR and SBU – ‘in full accordance with the Ukrainian legislation’.”
All appointed ‘enemies of the power’ by the present power of Ukraine are subject to risk being taken or eliminated according to the adopted law? Is this a real threat or nevertheless a policy of intimidation?
“Many remember the scandalous interview of the former head of the investigative department of the SBU General Vasily Vovk. In an interview to the TSN TV channel he said that in 2015 Ukrainian ATO soldiers and the staff of special services developed a unique plan for Vladimir Putin’s kidnapping. They were going to kidnap the President of Russia during ‘Normandy Format’ negotiations in Minsk and to transport him to the Hague. According to Vovk, their operation was stopped by the US President Barack Obama. Petro Poroshenko contacted him for confirmation of the beginning of the operation, but received a sharp refusal. I know Vasily Vovk very well. He doesn’t look like someone who circulates fakes. But even if what he said doesn’t correspond to reality, the kidnapping of Putin would’ve been carried out according to Ukrainian legislation. Such actions completely correspond to moods in the Ukrainian politicum.”
How does this department work, where is it, how is information gathered, and what events were organized by it?
“The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) is engaged in collecting information. Even during Viktor Yanukovych’s presidency, in this department there was a lot of equipment. All conversations that were on Maidan were recorded. And, despite the fact that leaders of Maidan regularly changed their phones, they took them from the people who were simply nearby, and voice recognition went to work, and immediately all information was read out, recorded, and arrived at the department. There were special machines that extracted all the information that was in conversations on mobile phones. Perhaps, many remember the scandal with the People’s Deputy from ‘People’s Front’ Tatyana Chernovil when she entered into one of such cars via the sun roof. After Yanukovych’s departure, Americans brought to the department special equipment for extracting conversations for $500 million. And in this regard now there are certain difficulties that exist: on the territory of the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics, despite the fact that their own mobile operator was introduced, all cable fiber-optic lines anyway are tied in Ukraine. That’s why everything that is now being said in Donetsk, Lugansk regions – through mobile communication and not only, immediately becomes known to the Security Service of Ukraine. The staff of the SBU very actively works, extracts and deciphers all conversations on Viber, WhatsApp, Skype, and other messengers, e-mails both on the territory of Ukraine and on the territories of the People’s Republics. That’s why accounts on social networks of people who live in Donbass are often hacked. This is already simply put on a conveyor belt: all communication, all social networks are under the control of the special services of Ukraine. When receiving a SMS password for entering a messenger or a social network, this information automatically becomes available to the special services of Ukraine.”
I.e., today the special services of Ukraine trace and listen to practically everything that happens in Donbass?
“Yes. And, of course, it creates very big problems. Now communication between militiamen commanders is also not guaranteed against information leakage. It can be listened to, it can be jammed – there are technical capabilities for this purpose. If we remember the history of the Great Patriotic War – the first lost battles on the fronts and retreats were connected precisely with the fact that in the Soviet units there were problems with communication. For example, when the order was given and it started to be carried out, and the situation suddenly changed, but it was impossible to report about it, and everything went not according to plan, not according to the strategy. And only by the end of the war in each unit and tank was there already communication with the leadership. Besides control over communication, the SBU also has an extensive intelligence network in Donbass, Crimea, and Moscow. The prepared people deliver information that they receive, getting a job in various government State structures. This is especially widespread in the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics. When I was the head of the parliament of Novorossiya, I had to bring the Deputies to the building of the Donetsk Regional Administration. I was asked to provide a list of Deputies. I really didn’t want to give as at that time there still weren’t any borders, and the SBU was freely acting on the territory of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. But I was obliged to give this list for security purposes. Already the next day it was published on the websites of Ukraine, in open access, and after a few days there were already attempts at arrests and the detentions of my Deputies began.”
The tasks and functions of the SBU are clear. And what is the GUR engaged in?
“The GUR is engaged in the direct elimination of people, of those who are considered as the enemies of Ukraine. If it is necessary to poison someone, to plant an explosive – it is the SBU who engages in it. If it is necessary to openly, directly send employees of special units who will kill, who will shoot from a grenade launcher, to stage sabotage – then it is the ‘handwriting’ of the GUR. In the GUR there are professionals who are specially trained for such operations. Very often for their operations the GUR involves units of members of spetsnaz that are in the structure of the UAF (Armed Forces of Ukraine). The SVR (Foreign Intelligence Service) is also engaged in collecting information.”
What events were organized by this department?
“This department organized and carried out rather a lot of murders, which can be called political ones. The last one is the murder of the head of department of the LPR People’s militia Oleg Anashchenko, the murder of the commander of the DPR ‘Sparta’ battalion Arsen Pavlov (call sign ‘Motorola’), murder of the commander of the ‘Somalia’ battalion Mikhail Tolstykh (call sign ‘Givi’).”
Perhaps you can share the details about the circumstances of the murder of Mikhail Tolstykh?
“The Minister of State Security of the LPR Leonid Pasechnik already gave a comprehensive answer to this question. I can only add that the first version of events about a shot from a ‘Shmel’ flame thrower at the office of Givi was not completely accurate. As far as I know, allegedly the explosive was brought to Mikhail Tolstykh’s office in advance by an agent recruited by the SBU. It is known that it was a young woman. And it is from an explosion by the brought-inside explosive that the weapons that were in the office detonated, including a ‘Shmel’ flame thrower .
I possess information about the murder of Givi, but now I won’t speak about it because I consider it to be correct to wait for the termination of the investigation and the announcement of its results by the DPR special services.”
Do the murders have a political character or are other motives being traced?
“A striking example of a political murder is the murder of Evgeny Zhilin – the former employee of the department on the fight against organized crime of the Regional Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine in the Kharkov region, the founder and head of the Kharkov public organization ‘Oplot’. Evgeny Zhilin was killed by a killer who was paid with money. The killer was hired by the employee of Avakov – the deputy head of the regional department of the Kharkov police Colonel Nikolay Cheremukhin. The killer was employed through the ‘criminal world’. He simply arrived in Moscow and committed the murder. On September 19th, 2016, in Moscow, in the Veterok restaurant, in the elite settlement of ‘Gorki-2’, Evgeny Zhilin met his friend Andrey Kozyr. The killer murdered Zhilin and wounded Kozyr. Sometimes, as is the case with Zhilin, the operation on the ‘elimination of the enemies of Ukraine’ is the result of the simultaneous work of several departments. Information about where Zhilin is, his phone numbers, routes that he moves along etc., all of this is the result of the SBU’s activity. According to information that was said to me by my colleagues in Kiev, immediately after the murder of Zhilin, Avakov and Kondratyuk met up and had a celebratory drink for a successful completion of the operation that they did.”
Is is true that the “Russian department” was engaged in the blowing up of the high voltage line in Ukraine – in the Kherson region?
“The blowing up of the high voltage line is the work of Lenur Islyamov, who was engaged in the organization of the blockade of Crimea. He worked with the SBU of Ukraine already at the time of Yanukovych. And, of course, he maintained contacts and communications with who he worked with. Now Islyamov is closely in contact with General Vitaly Malikov – the head of the anti-terrorist center of the SBU. Before the referendum in Crimea Malikov worked for a long time in Sevastopol. All coordination of actions of the Tatar battalion and interaction with Islyamov happens through Vitaly Malikov.”
Why is there an American flag on the building of the SBU?
“Now there isn’t an American flag on the SBU building anymore. And this is to the media’s merit. Many television channels aired programmes, and the press wrote about this fact. Naturally, there were indignations, and, as a result, the US flag was removed. At the time of Nalyvaichenko, the American flag hung near the flag of Ukraine on the building at the address: 33 Vladimirskaya Street. Every day CIA employees came here in two big jeeps. Their office was situated on the fourth floor. And it’s there that the work was carried out: instructing, training for SBU employees. But over time it became inconvenient – these jeeps were sighted too often, and there was too much talk about it. The CIA rented another building. I will not name the street where now the office of the CIA is located, in order to not force them to change their address again. I will only say that the street was renamed, nearby there is a big church. In the building itself there is a big hall where the heads of departments and heads of three organizations – SBU, GUR, and SVR are regularly invited. There training and group classes are provided to them, where they are taught how to use electronics and given various instructing. Generally, work goes at full speed. Once every half a year all heads of the GUR, SVR, and SBU departments go to America for study. In the US individual classes and ideological conditioning is carried out with them, increasing the level of their professional knowledge. And they come back to Ukraine more prepared for war with Russia.”
The USA pays generously for the services of the people who work for them?
“Very generously. So it turned out that one my acquaintances maintained relations with Vitaly Kondratyuk’s assistant at the time when Kondratyuk headed the GUR. One of the assistant’s duties was to every month go and withdraw the money that came to the card – the sum was $50,000. It was payment for that work that the chief of the main department of investigation of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine Lieutenant-General Valery Kondratyuk did for the US. But once, the assistant decided to play on the exchange rate and didn’t deliver several hundreds of dollars, which he received a severe reprimanding for from his leader. Then he complained to my acquaintance about the avarice and chariness of his chief. The chiefs of departments were also receiving salaries ‘from the US’, but a smaller sum. For example, Vitaly Nayda previously headed the department of counterintelligence of the Security Service of Ukraine, and was directly engaged in the issues concerning Russia, Crimea, the DPR, and the LPR. Also he was receiving money from the US according to the same financial scheme – $30,000 on his bank card. After he was transferred as the head of the Ternopol Regional Management of the SBU, naturally, money ceased to arrive into his account, which became the reason for the discontent and indignation of Vitaly Nayda. The US prints dollars, and, without economising, spends them on the ‘cultivation’ of useful people, recruiting them amongst the so-called Ukrainian elite. The number of such ‘patriots’ reached 150,000-170,000 people. And all of them received a very generous salary. And they continue to receive it. For example, Valentyn Nalyvaichenko receives about $100,000 a month. I want to note that it’s profitable to work for the US. But only if you don’t touch the aspects of conscience and morals. Look at Nalyvaichenko’s career: he is in power all the time. If he isn’t a People’s Deputy, then he is the head of the Security Service. He is never without a post. And such a situation applies to all who work for the United States.”
Oleg, what can you say about Nalyvaichenko?
“Valentyn Nalyvaichenko? He is four years older than me. By the way, he looks well – life didn’t roughen him up. He was born in Zaporozhye. He graduated with honours from the Kiev Shevchenko University, majoring in ‘teacher and translator assistant’. The most funny thing is that his native language is Russian, he is specialization in the Russian language. He knows the Russian, Ukrainian, English, and Finnish languages. In 1991, after Perestroika, still for some time the employees of the special services of Ukraine went to get an education in Moscow. It is by such a ‘Komsomol permit’, as it was earlier called, that Valentyn Nalyvaichenko came to Moscow to study at the KGB Andropov Institute of Investigation of the USSR. But, despite good progress, he was dismissed. The reason for his dismissal, they try not to voice. While the matter is in the following: the student of the institute of investigation Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, during the weekend, under the cover of the US Embassy met with CIA employees, and transferred to them information: how teaching is done, what is taught exactly, and who are the teachers. All of this, naturally, was revealed, and he was dismissed. Thus, it is possible to say with confidence that it is exactly Valentyn Nalyvaichenko who was the first from the employees of the special services who was recruited in Ukraine.”
In the media it is possible to read that Nalyvaichenko was noticed engaging in not only “self-PR”, for what the SBU employees even nicknamed the chief Zalyvaychenko [for over-exerting himself – ed] (for example, at first – obtaining the status of a participant of the ATO, then – the widely advertized refusal of the status), but also in the use of the Security Service for political goals.
“He was trained especially to introduce him into the special services. After returning to Ukraine, on April 16th, 1994, the head of the SBU Evgeny Marchuk dismissed the Senior-Lieutenant Nalyvaichenko from the SBU, under the article ‘inappropriate for service’. Although, according to the law, he needed to be arrested and prosecuted. Valentyn Nalyvaichenko was quite legitimately charged with high treason, disclosure of the state secrets and transfer to foreigners of information that is confidential information and the property of the State – all these are punishable crimes. But at the time the US put very serious pressure on the leadership of Ukraine. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine took him for work, and then – what is natural in the circumstances – to the US consul, where Valentyn Nalyvaichenko worked in the consul of the Ukrainian Embassy in the US from 2001 to 2003. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs was always the ancestral lands of western intelligence agencies, and this ministry was one of the first that fell under their control – under American influence. After his return from the US, Nalyvaichenko became at first the deputy head of the SBU, then, on December 22nd, 2006, he was appointed to the position of the head of the Security Service of Ukraine, and then was a part of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine. At Nalyvaichenko’s time, the SBU actively participated in the realization of the euroatlantic strategy of Ukraine. Valentyn Nalyvaichenko was the initiator of the creation of the joint working group ‘Ukraine-NATO’ concerning military reform. On March 11th, 2010, after the victory of Viktor Yanukovych in presidential elections, he was dismissed from his post. But before this the former head of the SBU managed to do a lot. At Nalyvaichenko’s time, the archives of the SBU were declassified, they were digitized and open for free access to citizens. It is he who took Ukrainian nationalists under the control of the security services of Ukraine. During Nalyvaichenko’s leadership, contact between the SBU and Yarosh, with ‘Trizub’ and other nationalist organizations began. It is during his time that the SBU exhibitions about Holodomor were held, and when the trials of Stalin, Molotov, Postyshev, and others were staged. On December 19th, 2014, the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation opened a criminal case against Valentyn Nalyvaichenko. He is suspected of slander, organizing the use of forbidden means and methods of war, hindering the lawful and professional activity of journalists, and kidnapping. This is a brief description of the activity and ‘merits’ of Valentyn Nalyvaichenko’s – a bright and irreconcilable fighter against Russia, and in general against everything Russian.”
Perhaps, you know something about the special operations that are being developed by the department against the Russian Federation?
“I already said that in a certain building there is dressing down, training, preparation, tasks are set, a strategy is developed, meetings take place, i.e., in fact, the guiding of the Ukrainian special services takes place. Besides the training programs there is also a selection of the most talented pupils, and they are immediately prepared for a promotion. But, before doing this, the selected experts are sent to the US where they pass through additional training and serious ideological conditioning, after which they return to Ukraine. The US and CIA came to Ukraine rather seriously, and they work approximately in the same way as the Abwer worked on the territory of Ukraine during the Great Patriotic War worked: they prepare saboteurs and experts. Their task is the elimination of the leaders of the young Republics and the Commanders of the militia. The SBU, together with CIA, develop operations not only for elimination. They understand that, even having eliminated someone, others will come to fill their place. That’s why discreditation is very important for them. Rumours, gossip, sabotage on the territory of the DPR and LPR – everything that can lead to a reduction in the ratings of the heads of the Republics, to cause mistrust in the population towards the authorities and to the Russian Federation. And that’s why an important task is to kidnap, to extract from the territory of the Republics those known people, politicians, Deputies of the State Duma who come there. The operations of kidnapping prominent, bright oppositionists to the existing power are being developed. The task is set as follows: if there is an opportunity – to kidnap; there is no opportunity to eliminate. I want to pay tribute to the Federal Security Service in Crimea. Groups are constantly sent here: to replace one – another is immediately sent. One group collects information, another comes on the back of new data, find informants, calculate routes along which people who interest them move. Dossiers are assembled: where the person lives, with whom they communicate, and other information. And, nevertheless, there were no political murders or kidnappings on the territory of Crimea.”
Thank you, Oleg, for such an informative and honest conversation.
“Here is what I want to say to conclude our conversation. To sell the Motherland is a profitable business… People build a very good career. Those who start cooperating with the United States receive serious support. Those who passed through a known organization, don’t work in the fields and plants. They are immediately assigned as the deputy head of the administration, the assistant to the deputy, the editor-in-chief of some media. If the level of the candidate is higher – they already get onto the list of People’s Deputies. We won’t argue about morals and patriotism. Sometimes a human, alas, is weak. And selling the soul and conscience seems to many a very profitable investment. But it is necessary to remember also that besides the highest judgement there are also terrestrial laws. The destiny of traitors, as history proclaims, is very predictable and sad. So, draw your own conclusions.”
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