Translated by Ollie Richardson & Angelina Siard
Former speaker of the Parliament of Novorossiya Oleg Tsarev spoke about the conspiracy against Poroshenko, for whom war became the only way to prolong his stay in power.
On August 31st, 1939, SS officers dressed in Polish uniforms attacked a German radio station in Gleiwitz. This served as one of the pretexts for German aggression against Poland, which began World War II. Tsarev believes that Kiev is preparing an operation similar to “Gleiwitz”.
Oleg, recently you made a loud statement about preparation for another coup in Ukraine. Do you think that this information is reliable?
It’s reliable. Unfortunately, many of my predictions came true. Shortly before the coup in February 2014 I spoke in the Ukrainian Parliament with a statement that the US Embassy is organizing a coup in Ukraine. Shortly after my speech the coup actually happened. But today, I’m not affirming that a coup it will necessarily happen. I’m only saying that it is being prepared.
It’s being prepared now?
Yes. Hotel “Kiev” on the 17th floor in secrecy is preparing the premises for the headquarters of the conspirators. There the team of those who participated in the shooting of the “Heavenly hundreds” is gathering: Parubiy (now speaker of the Verkhovna Rada), Avakov… They quite densely communicate with Turchynov (head of the National Security Council and Defense of Ukraine). After I wrote about it in my blog, I heard from many friends in Ukraine. They said: “Oleg, we went to hotel “Kiev” to look and were convinced: Yes, indeed, there is a separate elevator, which is guarded, and no one is allowed on the 17th floor.”
Interior Minister Arsen Avakov is also implicated in the shooting of the “Heavenly hundreds”?
He knows many things.
Who were the main organizers of this crime, in your opinion?
Turchynov and Parubiy.
Parubiy was absent on Maidan on 20th February 2014, claiming that he had received a serious concussion. Back then it was rumored that he feared becoming a “sacrificial victim”…
No. There had to be another “sacrificial victim”.
I can’t talk about it. Because the disclosure of certain information will harm our cause. These plans were discussed at the meeting, Poroshenko was aware, but he didn’t make a decision. However, he knew about the impending execution.
The Americans were aware?
I think so. The Americans were aware of everything that was being done there.
On August 19th, some media reported that Avakov wrote a letter of resignation. How would you comment on this?
Here is the thing. On the one hand, Avakov together with a group of friends is preparing a coup against Poroshenko. But about 40 deputies of the Verkhovna Rada are orientated to Avakov. If Poroshenko dismisses Avakov, the pro-president majority will definitely fall apart. If the majority is scattered, the election of a new government will begin – chaos. It’s a disaster for Poroshenko. Avakov wrote his resignation many time but each time Poroshenko didn’t sign it.
What forces today are interested in the overthrow of Poroshenko? Why do they want to remove him?
Poroshenko has now concentrated all power in his hands and actually opposed himself to all. He removed Yatsenyuk, removed almost all American stooges. Actually Poroshenko today is supported by only the head of the SBU Vasily Gritsak, they have been friends for about 20 years and support each other.
But Hrytsak is also considered a creature of the Americans…
Of course, the candidacy of the head of the SBU agreed with the Americans, but they want to change it. Hrytsak is a creature of Poroshenko. If not for the work of the SBU, the coup would have already happened. Prosecutor General Yury Lutsenko now firmly conducts negotiations with the oligarch Igor Kolomoisky behind the back of Poroshenko, and Prime Minister Volodymyr Groysman began his political project with a budget of $900,000. The situation is that today Poroshenko cannot rely on anyone. Vasyl Hrytsak is the last one who supports him.
Kolomoisky is also against Poroshenko?
Kolomoisky is against Poroshenko. Kolomoisky’s wealth rests on three pillars: oil, ferroalloys (60% of the world market) and Privat bank. He was removed from oil. Now the question is of nationalization of the Privat bank. But this requires a large amount — about four billion dollars; Ukraine has no such money. The situation is complicated. Kolomoisky withdrew money from the bank, and if there is panic, the banking system of Ukraine will collapse. Poroshenko is now alone.
And who does the group of conspirators want to promote? Yatsenyuk?
Here’s the situation. I talked to many Russian politicians. They believe that if the radicals in Ukraine come to power, Russia definitely will not accept this kind of power. And the West will also turn away, because there will be outright Nazis. But the “civilized” face of the coup for the West would be Arseniy Yatsenyuk. When Groisman last arrived in the United States, he was told: “Address Yatsenyuk, he will organize all the meetings for you.” Yatsenyuk is closely linked to Nuland. If this team – Nuland and Biden – will remain in power, it means that they have clear and understandable appointees: Jaresko (ex-Finance Minister, a native of the US, a former employee of the State Department and US Embassy in Ukraine) and Yatsenyuk. As a Presidential candidate they considered also Nalyvaichenko (the former head of the Security Service of Ukraine). So those who are waiting for outright bandits to come to power and for the isolation of Ukraine, they are very much mistaken. As during Euromaidan, the coup will be made by the hands of radicals. But it is Yatsenyuk who will come to power.
What form can this revolution have? Street protests, riots?
At first, the script was just like that. But actually the situation of Poroshenko is so complex that he may himself voluntarily resign, citing his health. For him it is an opportunity to save his life and money.
I think he will write a resignation, but at first he will bargain hard. He bargains well, he is a great negotiator. When he realizes that all things end, he will negotiate immunity from criminal prosecution and the preservation of his capital. And the radicals will be used simply as a means of pressure. Now it is exactly on this script they are working.
When can all of this happen?
I think that it is unlikely to happen before the US presidential elections. Poroshenko now will do everything to fulfill the command that he received, namely, to provoke Russia into some actions that discredits her and Trump. It will either be an attack on Donbass, or provocations in Crimea.
For Poroshenko the war is the preservation of power for some time. And it doesn’t matter to him that he will lose part of the territory where a certain number of people will die.
Poroshenko at the end of last week made a statement that Russia is preparing to attack Ukraine. What’s behind it?
Now the next provocation allegedly on behalf of Russia is being prepared. Russian military uniforms were bought and transferred to Ukraine. Perhaps the group in Russian uniforms will conduct some sort of assault or attack. It will be exactly what Clinton needs. In order to blame Russia, and at the same time Trump – who they create the image of “appointee of Russia” for.
Statements by Poroshenko fit into this scenario, which was really confirmed by an insider.
I have been in Ukrainian politics for 20 years. I have many acquaintances among politicians and security forces. The young guys, SBU, told me that already a year and a half before they secretly penetrated the territory of the Belgorod region. They were given weapons, they crossed the border, did a battle march, and came back. So they ran in. These guys were not supporters of the ATO, they are from the “old hands” of the SBU. The border with Russia is very lengthy, and where exactly a provocation can occur is unknown.
In Crimea saboteurs from the military intelligence of Ukraine were recently detained. This is a fundamentally new situation: there was a direct aggression against Russia from a foreign state. There is the opinion that Russia should give it a serious response. How do you think they will deal with it?
I think Russia will not take action. It will simply use the situation for an abrupt change in rhetoric in relation to Petro Poroshenko and Ukraine. I might say the unpopular thing, but I think that Russia mustn’t do anything.
Now in Ukraine there is a civil war. If you go to the blogs of Ukrainian “patriots”, you can find proof that they cheer when people die. For them, the more people who die, the better, because it reinforces hatred, and the gap with Russia becomes irreversible. A military solution to the conflict means new victims. Already a huge number of people have been killed.
You have the numbers — how many people have died?
I know the figures. They are monstrous. I will not name the source, but he’s serious. About 100,000 people died during the conflict in Ukraine. It already almost “caught up” Yugoslavia. Therefore, the ideal situation is when the conflict is resolved outside of Ukraine. In Syria, during elections in the United States, by any political bargaining between world powers. What is happening now in Syria, Turkey, and other regions is in fact the solution to the Ukrainian question outside the territory of Ukraine.
Do you think that these Crimean saboteurs are the real saboteurs? The Ukrainian side still denies it, asserts that it was random people.
These are the real saboteurs.
What was the objective of the attacks that they were preparing? What, in your opinion, did Kiev hope to achieve?
It was a provocation as the solution to American and Ukrainian internal political problems. The situation in Ukraine resembles the situation in Chechnya after the first war. Do you remember, when under the pressure of the international community, Russia left Chechnya alone. The shameful peace treaty was signed in Khasavyurt, and in return the IMF allocated Russia a loan. But it turned out that it wasn’t possible to leave Chechnya, because internal problems arose, and there were two options: either a civil war inside Chechnya, or outward expansion. The same thing will happen in Ukraine. The stronger the situation in Ukraine will deteriorate, the more the problems with Russia will escalate. The length of non-equipped borders with Russia is such that problems will arrive definitely.
Me, too, after the arrest of the Crimean saboteurs, I saw this association with Chechnya. In my opinion, the analogy is accurate. But the invasion of Chechnya in Dagestan resulted in the second Chechen war…
I still hope that everything will be somehow solved on the territory of Ukraine. I think that Russia will do everything in order to prevent a war from beginning before the US elections…
What caused the resignation of Ambassador Zurabov?
Back in 2012 at the “round table” in MGIMO, Zurabov said that the President of Ukraine will be Poroshenko. And that is a very good option for Russia, because Poroshenko will not pass through the three check boxes. The first box – NATO, the second — Sevastopol, and the third – Orthodox Church.
Zurabov has a good personal relationship with him, he was always Poroshenko’s lobbyist in Russia. He persuaded that Poroshenko is the one person you can always negotiate with, which remains in a reasonable, balanced position, in which his heart is with Russia, though he can’t show it. The recognition of the presidential elections and many other things was done in the hope that it is possible to conduct dialogue with Poroshenko.
And the resignation of Zurabov is a marker of that there will not be anymore dialogue with Poroshenko about anything. For two reasons. First – he always does only what is profitable for him. If it is not, he deceives. Therefore, to negotiate with him is useless. Secondly – he is not an independent politician. And everything is already a corridor where he can make independent decisions.
It means that Zurabov was deceiving the public at the “round table”, and the Russian leadership?
Why? Maybe he genuinely thought so.
However it looks like that because of Zurabov’s information, Russia made a number of major and fatal mistakes, the most important of which, in my opinion, is the recognition of the legitimacy of the election of Poroshenko. Now the realization of it came, but time is lost. Why wasn’t he dismissed before?
I think that Zurabov left as another negotiator. There is Viktor Medvedchuk, and was Zurabov — as another channel through which it is possible to negotiate with Poroshenko. And now it was decided that this channel is not needed.
The last time again, the information appeared that the United States can begin to supply weapons to Ukraine. Is this really so?
Yes, as soon as there is a provocation, the supplying of lethal weapons will start. And for a while there are a huge number of weapons from the former Warsaw Pact that were dragged there, such as guidance systems, which allow the plotting of coordinates by the person who fired the shot. For something more serious… At the airport of Dnipropetrovsk NATO warplanes constantly touch ground, from where some boxes are unload. At this time the airport is encircled, and what’s in these boxes, nobody knows.
What do you think a martial law will bring to Ukraine? There was information that it will happen in August.
It was Turchynov who tried to incline Poroshenko by all means to introduce martial law. And the decision was practically made. This was reported on the eve of the cross procession. Then they figured out that in case of martial law the second person in the state becomes Turchynov, as Secretary of the Security Council with immense powers. And if something happens to Poroshenko, he becomes the #1 face. That’s why they backed off. And considering the position Turchynov occupies today, who communicates with Avakov and Parubiy, I think that Poroshenko will impose martial law only in case of an extreme situation.
If Poroshenko doesn’t trust Turchynov, why has he not been replaced?
Turchynov works with the United States since the time of history with Gongadze. He took an active part in the unwinding of this case. He’s very tightly associated with the Americans.
Ukraine marks the 25th anniversary of independence. What feelings does this date invoke in you? What has Ukraine accomplished?
What kind of feelings can it cause? The pace of Soviet Ukraine’s development was ahead of Western Germany’s. She had a nuclear industry, as France has. Aircraft construction, pipe industry, ferrous metallurgy, nonferrous metallurgy. And look where she is now. We are one of the few countries in the CIS where GDP has not reached the level that we had at the time of the Soviet collapse. About 35% of GDP of independent Ukraine consists of GDP of Ukrainian SSR. By the way, it was Belarus who was the first to surpass the GDP at the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Then after it was Azerbaijan. If Azerbaijan did it thanks to oil, Belarus did it simply due to the fact that they didn’t destroy their industry. Here are the results of Ukrainian independence.
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